beka1820:

hooks-and-feathers:

beka1820

replied to your

post

:

As long as people are being respectful, I’m so…

I’m completely with you and your anon on this and honestly I hope the backlash continues. I wonder how Adam feels right now knowing the only people praising him and this episode are the same ones who regularly send him threats and pure hate. That would definitely make me question my choices and what missteps I made.

@beka1820, I don’t think it helps that the episode was written as a 2 hour episode instead of just one hour and that there’s a 3 month hiatus between 6×10 and 6×11.

Bottom line is that A&E underestimated the way people feel about Emma. Emma stans aren’t the most vocal people, but Emma is a character that is very much loved. She is the heart and soul of the show, and yet, that’s not how she is treated.

4×05 made me hate everything with that pairing. And it just kept going. It’s like the Energizer bunny, doesn’t know when to fucking stop.

When I take a step back, I get in theory what the writers were trying to do, but I still hate the hell out of it.

Oh agreed!!! 4.05 doesn’t exist to me. I’d now put this episode on that level of absolute hating it.
I’ve seen people rationalizing Emma being the way she was because it was the EQ’s wish for her essentially. That’s all fine and good and I definitely see what they are saying, I can see it fitting. But it would have taken a sentence on the show to confirm that. And why aren’t Adam or Jane saying that to all the people on Twitter now? I haven’t seen them say it, so I can’t get fully on board with that theory at the moment. I love that people are finally standing up strong for Emma because whether or not she was the way she was in the wish world because of the EQ, that she basically thanked Regina for killing her parents and for the curse itself is unforgivable writing as far as I’m concerned.
I hope this comes as a major wake up call to them, and I hope the fact that it isn’t about any ship and about the main beloved character that they’re doing this injustice to makes them rethink this treatment of her.
If I may ask your thoughts, I’ve seen some speculate that all of this is a diversion in a sense and Regina will truly accept her evil side back and stay the villain. While I would be more than ok with that, it feels a truly sloppy way (and at the expense of the other characters) way to get to that point. Plus I assumed the reason they did this split queen thing was so they could have evil Regina, but it wouldn’t “mess up” her “redemption”.

I am the last person to judge anyone on the way they’re feeling. Honestly, the stuff that I’m seeing on my dash has been a long while coming, plus I don’t think it helps that a lot of us are currently on Regina overload.

If I’m being completely honest, I don’t know that Regina will ever accept her evil side back. Whether she takes her back or not remains to be seen, but I think the point that the writers are making is that even if the other half is destroyed, Regina has already taken those steps where the darkness is taking hold again. It’s just not something one can get rid of as we saw with Jekyll in 6×04.

Keep reading

OMG yes bless. I was also thinking yesterday about how Killian convinced Emma to take the potion in 3×12, and another thing I think is important to parallel, is this dialog:

“Trust your gut, Swan. It will tell you what to do.

– Henry always says that.

Then, if you won’t listen to me, then listen to your boy.”

Regina is Henry’s mom and yet she wasn’t able to come up with a plan that would involve Henry and his “truest believer” thing, that even if he was wish!Henry I bet he would still have had it, hell I bet she would be able to end up convincing Henry that she was his other mom even, but I guess that was too much work and also apparently she can’t ever not do what Rumple tells her to do, she clearly has not come to know how he operates even after all these years…

Anyway, completely agreed on everything you said, either the writers do underestimate the audience’s love for Emma as a character, or they do have some trick up their sleeve and they’re very sloppily trying not to spoil it.

I also don’t get why people are like “why is Henry there?” and “why are only Snowing old?” – this is a fake realm!! There is no logic because it’s not supposed to be logical! Nothing that happened in the real world had to occur in this one. Regina crushed fake peoples’ hearts and set a fake Rumple free. I see fans talking about “plot holes” in the AU and I’m like ?????? You don’t have to rationalize why things are…. & the writers gave themselves an out by having Regina explain the unrealness.

killian-whump:

tlynnwords:

I agree ,,,

but

For some people these things are important. When things don’t make perfect sense and aren’t explained it really bugs people. Attention to detail (especially when the writers have messed up in the past) can be a sticking point for some fans.

I think the AU would have been better to have just not included Henry but they obviously wanted him to be the reason Emma snaps out of it so they fit him in and made clear that he still has the same parents.

But yeah, trying to make sense of the supporting characters in a wish realm isn’t how I’m going to spend my fandom time.

Also, I think some things make “no sense” from an outside perspective, because they were intended to “make sense” to Emma and Emma alone.

Her parents being the same age as her would be weird. It would make her question the reality of the world around her. So they are aged appropriately – yet, as many fans noticed, it is not a true aging. Their hair is grayer, but their faces remain largely identical. No wrinkles, no real age shown. It’s merely the illusion of appropriately aged parents that Emma has been given – not the reality. This keeps their appearances familiar to her as “her parents” without causing Emma to question the logic of the world around her.

Granny, etc, would seem familiar to her at the only age she’s ever known
them – their true age in Storybrooke. Aging them up would only serve to
make them seem less familiar – and would serve no additional purpose
(as the aging of Snow/Charming does) – thus being more “suspicious” to
Emma. Thus, they are kept the same age.

In this reality, her parents did not train her to fight or stand up for herself. “That’s wrong!” people say. “They would’ve raised her to be a fighter!” True, they would have. But in reality, they never did. Those traits were built up in Emma without their influence whatsoever. So their lack of training in this world would seem sensible to Emma, as she never received any training from either of them in reality. Again, this is not a “what if” world. This is a world entirely created and designed to prevent Emma from being who she is – the Savior.

Henry must exist in this world, as some part of her would likely feel his absence and if she dreamed of his existence (as she dreamed of Storybrooke), it would likely trigger her realizing something is very wrong. This is also why his name is Henry in this world, even though the name was chosen by Regina. Having him named anything else could be a red flag that might alert Emma to the fact that something is wrong. Again, it doesn’t need to make actual sense – it only must make sense to Emma’s mind.

Since Henry must exist, he must have a father. As with aging up the parents, having a fatherless child would be strange. Keeping Neal as his father makes the most sense, again, as this will not seem weird to Emma. He is dead in the Wish Realm as he is in reality, again, so as not to arouse suspicion in her surroundings. He is celebrated as a hero because Neal, at this point in reality, is considered a hero in canon. Also, it is tantamount that Emma not recall any strife in her life that should have triggered the “fighter” inside of her, as this would also seem “wrong”. Therefore, her questionable history with Neal is omitted from this reality. Only the “heroic” ideal remains.

Killian’s absence in this reality is likely based on a “lesser of two evils” trade off. Killian encourages Emma to be strong, to fight. That is a big part of who he is and how he expresses his love to her. In order for him to exist in this reality, he would have to not ever do that. And having a Killian Jones who embraces Emma as a weak and ineffectual person who would rather sacrifice her entire kingdom than stand up and fight could trigger Emma to realize something is wrong. Better to have her mind at a place where she has not met him yet than to include him in the narrative as a potential bright red flag.

The Evil Queen is banished, not dead, because some part of Emma might sense something being “wrong” or disturbing/upsetting about the Evil Queen (who is also Regina) being dead. Saying she is “banished” mirrors the real world – where the “Evil Queen” is no longer who Regina is, but Regina herself remains alive and well.

The Evil Queen killing her parents did not wake Emma because it made sense to her. As the Evil Queen, Regina tried countless times to kill Snow White and Prince Charming. Even now, with the two entities separated, she literally watched the Evil Queen yank her parents hearts out of their chests only a few days prior. Seeing her do so again, even seeing her crush their hearts to dust, would absolutely not be illogical to Emma’s mind.

However, seeing the Evil Queen truly care about Henry did not make sense to Emma. We saw just as recently as 6×08 that the Evil Queen would absolutely hurt Henry (either by killing his moms or by darkening his heart) to get whatever she wanted. But suddenly… the “Evil Queen” was willing to stand idly by and allow Henry to straight up murder her, rather than lay a finger on him. This did not make sense to Emma. It triggered her mind to question her reality. Seeing Henry about to take another’s life and darken his heart then awoke the fighter in her. These two events in tandem woke her ass up entirely and destroyed the “sense” this entire realm was built on.

So now we have Robin Hood. His presence makes no sense. A new character arriving at this point in time makes no sense. It is perhaps at this point in time that A&E’s comment about this realm existing as of now comes into play. There is no reason for Robin Hood to be in this world, let alone arrive at this point in time, having to do with keeping Emma from questioning this world. The wish the Evil Queen made should not have created Robin Hood. And yet, here he is.

Why? How? Well, that’s why it’s the cliff hanger. This world has now taken on a mind of its own. It is now creating and moving the narrative for purposes unbeknownst to anyone. And this change now opens the door for additional ‘new’ characters to appear, characters who were left out for the very reason that they might cause Emma to question her reality – Killian (left out for the reasons above), and August (left out because making Emma question her reality is his primary narrative function in the series), and who knows who else. Characters that should not logically exist in this world, but now will. And finding out why will likely be part of the fun of this adventure.

The Wish Realm makes perfect sense, actually… if you look at it right.

Rock and Compass Watches Once Upon A Time – 6.08: I’ll be your mirror

rock-and-compass:

Overview

A plan to trap The
Evil Queen in the Mirror World backfires when she turns the tables on Emma and
Regina and sends them there instead. Henry is experiencing some teenage woes in
his friendship with Violet and Belle looks for a way to make a permanent escape
from Rumple.

Discussion and Thoughts

Straight up, I think it’s very interesting,
telling even, that whenever there is a Regina-Emma centric episode, they must
be physically separated from the rest of the population via some version of a
“road trip”. We have it again in this
episode. Outside of the narrative, the writers love to tell us that these two
women are friends and “family” but that reading of the text is undercut by the
text itself; to have Emma and Regina spend any extended time together, it must
be coerced or be forced by the text.
This suggests that in the narrative context of the show it is unnatural for
Emma and Regina to choose to spend any time together in each other’s sole
company and that the friendship isn’t nearly so deep as the writers would have
us believe. If this episode does one thing it is to reinforce the idea that
Emma and Regina are not actually friends and the only thing connecting them is
Henry.

This is not one of the better episodes from the
Once Upon a Time catalogue largely because it feels frustrating, it marks time
and doesn’t move the story forward in any significant way and it re-treads old
ground – Regina is full of woe and (even though she is also fairly woeful) Emma
puts her own feelings aside to talk Regina off a ledge. The one difference is
that Regina is not quite as belittling as is her custom; must be a consequence
of the personality split. But, that being said, what was interesting about the
episode was the deliberate delivery of mixed messages via the narrative and the
fact that our main characters were written to be particularly stubborn in their
determination not to see it.

Keep reading

6.10 Wish You Were Here

thisisevenharderthannamingablog:

lessawildmoon:

thisisevenharderthannamingablog:

Whooooo what a train wreck, although I’m less annoyed now that I’ve had some time to cool off. This was a thematically interesting but not well written episode. It had a great deal in common with the S5 finale, now that I think about it, which was another one of A&E’s: unnecessary Neal, awkward side-lining of other characters so Emma can Go Places With Regina, clumsy dialog, reuse of show mythology, and a strong sense that the details have not been thought through at all.

That said, only one character got destroyed on Sunday, and it wasn’t Emma Swan.

I understand that after all of this time, A&E want to personally guide the SS Regina into the iceberg. Her two happy endings have just run smack into one another as a result of her wishes. Being caught in between them is, I would hazard, exactly what she deserves. I do wish (ha) they would back off and let someone else handle the detail work, though. In their anxiety to showcase her horrible glory, they ride roughshod over other characters, and the particulars of the writing are clunky. Having built this elaborate symbolic structure, they then feel a need to hit the audience over the head with it.

We know, guys, we know.

But to get back to those themes. We have yet another adventure in dualism here, another mirror world where down is up:

The Other Shoe – Characters flip roles, the hero doing something regrettable and the villain having a surprisingly sympathetic story.

Strange Case – Characters try to physically dissociate themselves from unwanted qualities, resulting in an apparent opposition that conceals unity of purpose.

I’ll Be Your Mirror – A literal world of mirrors, the virtues of being yourself vs playing a role, identity vs seeming.

Wish You Were Here – The apparent opposition is revealed for a facade; Regina’s two halves reach moral if not yet physical identity. The real world is exchanged for a “wish world” in which an essential change to Emma’s identity ripples through the EF and makes it a perfect place for… Regina, while her victory in Storybrooke starts to fall apart underneath her.

Because today, it really is all about her. Buckle up! I hit 3k words again this week.

Keep reading

This was pretty much my take on the ep, probably due to your influence (you have destroyed all my pessimism with your logic and rational reasoning).

I do think that the writer shenanigans on twitter are them trying to protect their twist/temporarily placate fans who are not going to be happy with it. Because that is far more believable than the alternative, that they are really very stupid. The writing may not always be good, but they are writing one of the most successful shows on ABC. The idea that

people good enough to have created a hit TV show are dumb enough not to see what they have written is far more ludicrous than the idea that they are rather clumsily trying to protect a twist from the GA.

And people tend to forget we are not a good barometer of how the story is being perceived, as we do not interact with our media the way most people do.

I think Gideon’s presence was spoiler protection. They knew they were not going to be able to keep Giles Matthey’s return under wraps through the entire hiatus, especially if he is sticking around for any length of time (I am holding on to my hope that they don’t put Belle through losing him). So they revealed him pre-hiatus to maintain some kind of surprise.

What, fandom isn’t normal?! 🙂 I hope you’re right about the Twitter stuff. (Also, thanks!)

I don’t think they’re gonna do that to Belle, either. She’s been through enough (and then some).

Episode 6×09 ~ Changelings; or how History repeats itself

hooks-and-feathers:

I’m someone who is huge on History. When I’m working on something, I always go back to look at History because there are always patterns. History helps with more concise analysis and sheds light.

Episode 6×09 was basically a repeat of History with the same or different characters, and there will be more of History repeating itself especially with the alternate universe episodes.

So there’s obviously analysis in this episode, but there are also a couple of rants.

As always, speculations are subject to change with more information, although I should probably give up speculating altogether because I kinda suck at it. And everything is a personal opinion.

There was a lot in this episode and I hope I covered everything that I wanted to cover.

Also, I didn’t proof read anything.

Keep reading

6.09 Changelings

thisisevenharderthannamingablog:

I feel like the pacing was uneven in this one, that they stuffed in one subplot too many. Overall I am enjoying the slower unfolding of events vs the old split-season approach, though – TBH, I sometimes feel like I’m one of very few in the fandom who are enjoying this season.

But anyway, Rumple episodes always give me a lot to say, plus we got an appearance by my favorite liminal space, the library – in both realms, no less. So let’s get to it.

Keep reading

OUaT 6×09 – Random Thoughts & Observations

j-philly-b:

Not a bad episode. Disappointingly little of the Black Fairy
[more Jaime Murray people, don’t waste your opportunity!], but some interesting
developments to move the story into the winter finale. Personally, I have a hard
time mustering up any real emotion about what I watched. I love a villainous
Rumple, and I’ve been waiting for a temper tantrum from him since day one, but
his backstory doesn’t tug at the heartstrings anymore.

I’ve always looked at Gold and Belle as the exception that
proves the rule for the TL couples. They are a cautionary tale – love is not
always enough, there has to be an element of sacrifice, of compromise, and
without that love cannot conquer all. Similarly, this episode gave us another
cautionary tale, namely: until you can find forgiveness in your heart – for yourself,
for your enemies – you will always have a hole there waiting to be filled.

Random Thoughts:

There has been a lot of talk of forgiveness this season, and
whether or not certain characters can forgive each other. Belle in particular
has talked quite a bit about whether she can ever forgive Rumple for the things
he’s done. Then this week we get the scene between sisters and whether Regina
can forgive Zelena. Regina and Zelena’s scene should make us wonder if Regina
really has changed as much as she wants to believe. I would argue that Regina
refusing to forgive Zelena aligns her more with the villains this season than
with the heroes.

Compare:

Zelena: What
about forgiveness? What about redemption? I mean, you’ve been forgiven! You’ve
grown. You’ve changed!

Regina: You’re
not me. I can never forgive you. I can pity you. I can hate you. I can spare
your life. But I can never forgive you. (6×09)

With:

EQ: They really
are much too forgiving of each other.

Rumple: Well,
forgiveness is a virtue. One I’m not particularly fond of.

EQ: Aww, that’s
too bad. Because I’ve come here to make amends. (6×06)

While Regina may have accused the EQ of falling for Gold’s tricks because she has a hole in her heart just like Regina did when she cast the dark curse, the scene between Regina and Zelena served to show that Regina, just like her better half, still has a hole in her heart that she’s searching for a way to fill.

Apparently Rumple’s obsession with babies and children may
be more genetic than we originally thought – the Black Fairy, according to
Blue, originally was a protector of children who started stealing them from
their homes after her heart was darkened; and Peter Pan created a supposed
paradise for lost boys who were kidnapped by the shadow and brought to
Neverland forever.

Yes, Rumple
was abandoned by both of his parents, each of whom favored power over love. Yet
another Stiltskin family trait?

I have to
wonder whether there’s some relationship between the babies stolen by the Black
Fairy and the lost boys kidnapped by Pan’s shadow. Like, were the lost boys
that wound up in Neverland originally the babies stolen by the Black Fairy abandoned
to the streets after they got too old?

There’s
something poetic to thinking the Black Fairy and Pan each only went for male
children as their target after each willingly abandoned their son.

We also find out more about why Rumple, whose mother did not
give him a name before abandoning him, places such value on knowing someone’s
name. Of course, it’s not just Rumple who believes that knowing a person’s name
gives you power over that person (Jasmine refused to give her name to Emma and
David until she was told Hyde was dead because Jasmine was afraid of what Hyde
could do upon learning her name), but we get more discussion of it here, and a
clue that Gideon’s name will certainly come into play later on.

Rumple: A name’s
a special thing. You don’t waste it on something you’ve no intention of
becoming attached to.

When Belle entered the dream world for her first
conversation with Morpheus, he told her that the answer to saving him was “already
inside you” and that it was right in front of her. I found that phrasing
curious, but they did not go back to it. Instead, the focus was on the book
Belle fell asleep reading that was written with the dried squid ink that Emma
and Killian used against Gold.

A direct
line from the Manual on Defeating the Dark One to Morpheus? Subtle this show is
not.

The EQ,
Belle, and Morpheus have all told us that Gold is planning to use the shears on
his son to take him away from Belle and to get his son to love him. Gold has
neither confirmed nor denied whether that is his plan. I’m with Killian on this
one: “If that truly is his plan, then why would he announce it to us?”

What is
Morpheus’ real goal behind his meetings with Belle in the dream world. His
failure to return Belle’s sentiment, and to push focus to the book has me
wondering:

Belle: I love
you. I love you more than anything in the world.

Morpheus: I know.
And I won’t ever forget it. Oh, and Mother, don’t forget the book.

So is the answer to saving Gideon, the answer that is
already inside Belle, also within Belle’s all-time favorite romance novel? We
already know Morpheus’ feelings toward his father, we know he used fear to try
to keep Gold away from Belle the first time they all met, and he’s continuing
to use Belle’s fear for his safety against her. I assume he’s foreshadowing his
own plan to come back and kill his father (like father, like son!):

“But Gideon
was unafraid. He drew his sword and turned to face the evil Sorcerer, ready to
save the people he loved.”

However,
thanks to her renewed visions while in the shop, the sword is in Emma’s
possession. Have Gideon’s plans already gone awry? It makes me think that there
is something more to that particular sword, it was in Gold’s shop after all, and
it would have to be powerful to use against the darkest DO to ever dark.

Aladdin taking on the genie’s powers to help Jasmine is the
textbook definition of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. Although,
as I posted yesterday, there are two things that strike me about this
particular act, one as we saw it played out and the other previewed in the promo
for next week:

Aladdin
putting on the genie cuffs = Emma taking on the darkness; and

Aladdin the
Genie forced to grant the EQ’s wish = Merlin tethered to the sword forced to do
Arthur’s bidding

I expect
that with Aladdin as the “renegade” genie granting the EQ’s wish, that the fact
that wishes cannot be undone will not be a factor. He will be able to corrupt
the wish in a way that will allow Emma to remember who she really is and return
to SB.

Random Observations:

The Black Fairy’s costume was fantastic and looked more like
a black swan than Emma’s DS costume.

Jaime Murray is a delight as the Black Fairy and should come
back as soon as possible. [Listen, HG may have been my favorite on Warehouse 13
and I still think she got robbed in the way her story ended.]

So apparently dried squid ink isn’t as powerful as it is in
its liquid form. Did Rumple learn that from his mum? I don’t think they
specified whether he used the dried or liquid form in the flashback.

Did anyone else think the umbilical cord when the red strand
lead Belle through the dream world to Morpheus/Gideon?

How often has Killian been used as “cannon fodder” since his
first appearance? I’m guessing the stay of execution was been lifted once Gold
threatened Killian while frozen.

In one episode the EQ has successfully cut herself off from
her allies and is isolated once more.

I also side-eyed Gideon HARD when he didn’t return his mother’s ILY, I was expecting him to say it back and when he didn’t I started suspecting him big time, based on some set spoilers for 6×11 and/or 12 we may not be so far off in not trusting him though…

6.08 – I’ll Be Your Mirror

thisisevenharderthannamingablog:

I was right; another 3,000+ words here.

I have to give Lana props for a good job on what had to be a grueling episode to film. Jared, too; he seems to have stepped up this season. Nice to see him able to handle more complex scene work.

Mirrors can serve two symbolic purposes. Depending on where you place the emphasis, a reflection can either show a character as they are, or as they are not. Mirrors don’t lie – they can highlight a truth about the character’s identity, or reveal something they might prefer to conceal. However, mirrors show images in reverse; they can emphasize something lacking in the character by showing their opposite.

As you know, I eat this stuff up. Regina’s thing with mirrors could easily have been written as a bit of window dressing on par with her wardrobe, a nod to the fairy tale and nothing more. Instead, they took the idea and made it a central facet of her character, this near obsession with how other people perceive her. (It was one of the motivations for Just Who Are You Swan , aka the longest, slowest meta project ever.)

The more I consider this episode, the more strongly it seems related to 1.02, another in which Regina attempts to manipulate Henry and alienate him from Emma. The bit about being a leader struck me in particular as being a very old thread in her characterization. There are many references to his childhood and to early characters like Sidney. Much of Evil Regina’s dialog and the way she seems to see herself in it is a throwback to S1.

What Does Regina Want?

Her happy ending, of course – both of them.

Keep reading

Rock and Compass Watches Once Upon A Time – 6.07: Heartless

rock-and-compass:

Overview

The Evil Queen renews
her personal vendetta against Snow While and offers an ultimatum – surrender
their hearts to her or watch as water from the River of Lost Souls is used to kill
the entire town. Snow, David and Regina hunt for a magical sapling that might
offer a chance to trap the Evil Queen. Zelena begins to feel resentment at
being slighted by her sister in favour of Gold and in a flashback to the
Enchanted Forest, Snow and David meet for the first time without ever realising
it.

Discussion and observations

This was an
interesting episode; essentially it reiterated three things that are
fundamental to the show:

1.
That Regina has a long-standing vendetta
against Snow White

2.
That Snow and David are true love

3.
That Emma is the saviour because she is
the product of their True Love

These are the foundation
stones of the entire series – everything that has happened in five and a bit
seasons of Once Upon a Time comes out of these three tenants. Without them
there would be no story. So, in this episode, with the Evil Queen’s reignited
desire for vengeance, the adventure (in both past and present) with Snow and
David and Emma being reminded of her vital role in all of this, it reiterates
the starting point of the show and asks the audience to revaluate where
everyone is in relation to that starting point. So much has changed. Or has
it? The scene with Emma and Killian in
Regina’s vault opens with an extreme close-up of Killian’s eye looking through
a small opening of a bottle. He winks and
changes to the other eye. It’s a very unusual shot. It’s about perspective;
looking at something one way and then shifting that focus to get a better look.
Or a different look. This episode seems simple and straightforward; but you
could do worse than use the shifting focus technique. Doing so makes for some
very intriguing possibilities, the most interesting of which is…

Three travellers on a road or, Regina is The Woodcutter

Keep reading

OMG I love you so much for making the parallel to Ladyhawke, I thought the exact same thing too, that this twist on the sleeping curse was so much like Ladywhawke (which was cemented further for me with that bittersweet first sneak peek). I am now very curious to see what their “eclipse” be too, and I actually would love it if the curse was broken by something other than TLK, we’ll see 😀

6.07 Heartless

thisisevenharderthannamingablog:

Another solid episode with lots to talk about. I feel like this show is strongest when it focuses on its core themes, and it doesn’t get any more basic than True Love. I’m also enjoying the slower pacing this season; they have the luxury of having a central story and letting a couple of subplots cook along in the background.

But first, have a very important dog.

Keep reading