Another thing that really annoys me regarding the perception that Killian’s go to was getting women drunk to sleep with them is that the entire exchange between Past!Hook and Emma is that he is IMMEDIATELY asking her to establish boundaries, asking her to tell him exactly what this situation is.
He asks her name. And when she declines to offer it he asks another question to determine what she wants from him, rather than just going with it he wants her to be clear:
“Just two ships passing in the night then?”
EMMA is the one who suggests more drinking.
Killian wanted to leave and go to the ship well before they had too much to drink and all of his line of questioning is finding out her intentions and what she wants.
He does make a joke, and I think the prevalent meta interpretation that he meant that as a tactic to get information rather than necessarily to coerce someone into a sexual encounter is spot on. At worst for me he’s just being flip.
I think he actually ends up asking her three or four times to confirm that’s what she wants in one way or another before and after drinking and his focus seems to be to find out what the end game was of the entire encounter.
The perception of that scene is just so off with what actually plays out it bothers me.
He makes it pretty clear by his actions that getting women drunk in order to sleep with them is NOT his tactic. Because if it was, surely that’s what he’d have tried with Emma. He didn’t. He very specifically did the opposite and asked her to leave with him before either of them were drunk. And when she insisted on another drink, and another, he eventually told her “listen, either you come with me now, or never – no more drinking, no more getting drunker, you’re making this decision now”.
That’s the opposite of trying to get her drunk in order to sleep with her. That’s him doing his best to make sure to determine what she wants before she gets drunk. And as far as he was concerned, at the time, he was talking to a random woman in a tavern – same as any other. So, to me, it’s pretty safe to assume that this was his usual MO for those situations.
IF the comment he makes refers to sexual encounters, he’s being flippant. It’s Hook, he’s full of bravado and swagger and saying things to fit the pirate persona. He did the same with Milah when he implied that he’d taken her against her will. He’s constantly saying he’s not sentimental but then we see him keeping all kinds of objects that have sentimental value to him.
He has done some bad things. There’s no denying that. And I’ll allow that the joke was in bad taste. But there’s zero evidence that Hook actually tries to take away people’s agency and plenty of examples where he goes out of his way to make sure that they get to make their own choices. Which, given his own past, makes a lot of sense.
It’s not “oh, he lost a hand, that sucks.” If that was the case, the narrative might well include him getting back. However, that’s not how it went, and the context in which it was lost is in this case the most important thing. That context is defined by Rumplestiltskin.
Rumplestiltskin cut off Killian’s hand under the assumption that the main thing Killian had going for him in life was physical strength, that Milah’s real reason for ditching Rumple was related to his disability, to him being in his own estimation unmanly.
(Note, if you will, that Milah herself never suggested any such thing. She referred to herself as being “lashed to the town coward,” but never that I can recall to Rumple’s limp.)
Cutting off that hand, in Rumple’s view, put Killian at the same level as Rumple himself had been all those years before. His intent was to doom his foe to that same life of perpetual victimhood and mockery, powerless and unwanted. That was supposed to be Rumple’s true victory, his way of reassuring himself that he didn’t really do anything wrong that first time, that it wasn’t a failure of courage, that it was all down to the body.
Living well is the best revenge, though. Killian went on with his life with barely a pause. He continued to fight, continued to lead, and continued to win the admiration of women. Rumple didn’t win a damn thing. His crisis of masculinity led to him cheating himself out of the bean and failed utterly in affecting his enemy, because for all of his often acute insight, when it comes to this particular subject he is 100% wrong.
Killian’s going to get his happy ending with that hook in place, because a missing hand doesn’t define him any more than having two did. Because it’s just not important – not to him, not to Emma, not to anyone who cares about him.
“When I told you I loved you back in Storybrooke, it was because I thought I was never going to see you again.” – the start of the focus on the fact that she can’t say ‘I love you’ in a quiet moment which they had her resolve in the finale.
“And the minute you take away the darkness, that future begins”
And the Promethean Flame lit up immediately which shows that she was telling the truth since that was the entire problem they were trying to fix.
It was only intense because Regina was forcing Emma with the dagger against her will because she’s a horrible person. The flame lit up after Hook talked to her with love and kindness.
I’m guessing whoever wrote this confession wanted it to be something else?
It’s also not just about Emma’s fear of settling down. It’s a fear of what the future holds, it’s a fear of the other shoe dropping, and it’s a fear of letting herself believe she can actually have a happy future because she’d had such a horrible past. Any time Emma has been in a position to believe that something good is finally happening, it gets ripped from her.
She has a family … until she’s three and they return her to the system.
She has a friend … until the friend betrays her.
She has a woman who wants to adopt her and be her family … until the woman holds her in front of a moving car.
She has a boyfriend who promises her home and family … until he doesn’t show up and she ends up in prison.
Her son finds her … and she ends up locked in a battle with a literal fairy tale villain (even if she doesn’t believe so yet).
She finds her family … and then she loses her memory of them.
So now she has home and her family and a guy she loves, and she’s petrified that if she lets herself believe that this is it, this is her happy ending, it’s going to be ripped from her like everything else has.
And you know what? It does. She stops fearing what the future holds … and Killian dies. That’s why Emma was afraid to let herself believe that everything is going to be fine from here on out. (And that’s why the Underworld story was so important in terms of the her development and the development between her and Killian. Because the little girl who lost everything put her foot down and said, “No, you can’t take this from me this time.”)
I keep seeing people point out that Josh most likely deleted his account because of one troll that was sending particularly vile messages to him. I didn’t see them but from what I understand they were pretty awful.
So people say that “oh, it was just a crazy stalker, this wasn’t fandom”
Not true.
Sorry, nope … yeah, this troll was over the top but everyone needs to take responsibility.
Have you ever tweeted hate at the cast/crew? THEN YOU ARE THE PROBLEM. STOP IT.
Not sure what hate is? It’s a hateful message.
Let’s see … how about tweeting “Fuck you” to someone you don’t even know? That’s hate. Calling someone a liar, telling them what they do and don’t care about … that’s hate!
What else?
Lana gets racist tweets, Robert gets accused of adultery, Emilie gets called an addict, Sean gets tweeted that he is sexually harassing his co-workers, Colin has been told to kill himself, Ginny gets called fat, Josh was told he is hanging onto Ginny’s coat tails, Bex gets called desperate, Jared has been told he is a rape culture supporter, Jen had been called homophobic and a slut and a homewrecker. Meghan and Jamie were told that if “they were the token gay couple then no one wants them.”
Was that uncomfortable to read? IMAGINE IF IT WAS SENT TO YOU ALL THE TIME.
Meghan left.
Ginny left.
Josh left.
Robert almost never tweets.
Colin & Jen barely ever engage with fans anymore.
If you choose to engage with people that you don’t know on social media and you try to talk to them with anything but respect then you are PART OF THE PROBLEM.
It is possible to send disagreement and criticism respectfully. That usually involves the absence of name calling. The absence of accusations. Ask questions and accept that the answer might not be what you wanted to hear. provide feedback without generalizing.
intentional as well? like the creators were trying to not only hint at the magic/wishing aspect of it all but also to give a shout out and say Killian is an important part of her life and her future and the overall family dynamic?
Hello anon! Regarding the camera panning to Hook when “things that belong to Emma” are mentioned i will direct you tothis gif set that i requested from the talented @lovestruckhook right after 5×01 aired! As you can see, YES – I do believe those camera shots are VERY intentional. Every shot is mapped out – and those are no exception.
And every line of dialog is intentional too. The scripts for OUAT go through multiple revisions. These aren’t real characters or real situations. The writers control the story and the dialog. And regarding the wishing well scene in the finale:
The writers wrote a scenario in which Henry wanted to convince everyone that wishes are REAL MAGIC.
They choose to have him offers her proof by citing the one time he KNOWS making a wish worked…
And the story they choose – the wish coming true story they wrote… was HOOK finding Emma and Henry in NY. And bringing them home.
Henry made that wish because he knew Emma was LONELY. You can argue that the wish was fulfilled by Emma and Henry being reunited with their family in SB – and that Hook was just person who made the wish come true and not really a part of that family. Who cares? The fact that the story is about Hook at all demonstrates his importance. He found them, he saved them, he brought them home.
Because Henry wished it.
The writers could have written ANYTHING to go in that scene – but they chose to have Henry say he made a wish, and have Emma recognize that Hook coming to NY and finding them was what happened in response.
And that was enough to convince everyone, including Regina and Rumple,that the wishing well thing could work. Which means, whether certain fans like it or not, that ALL the characters BELIEVED that Hook finding Emma was MAGIC – that his appearance at her doorstep in 3×11 was WISH FULFILLMENT.
Emma wished on the cupcake in S1 and Henry appeared
Henry wished in the well in S3 and Hook appeared.
Two wishes were made that Emma wouldn’t have to be alone
And Emma’s two True Loves finding her was the way those two wishes were granted.
Once again the writers chose to make a parallel between Henry and Hook. And this is coming on the heels of Emma and Hook being confirmed True Love. It was intentional.
Henry’s S3 wish story doesn’t confirm Hook as family. But the S5 finale does. Because he, Emma, and Regina wish to be reunited with their loved ones – and Snowing, Zelena, and HOOK are magically transported to them through the well.
Hook is a part of their family now. And this scene was a nice acknowledgment of that fact.
Life hack: whenever someone makes a generalised judgement about you, or anyone, based on something really arbitrary like who your favourite character is or what post you reblogged or what you had for dinner, it’s safe to ignore it. It’s worthless. It means nothing. Don’t even worry about it.
“Everyone who ships this is homophobic”, “everyone who liked this is racist”, “everyone who eats this is an idiot”, “everyone who reblogs this is horrible”, “everyone who doesn’t reblog this is heartless” – nah. Sometimes, people just like things. Sometimes, people don’t think things all the way through. Sometimes, people are on Tumblr for fun, not for having loud anon arguments about social justice (shock horror, I know). Sometimes people are too shy to say something. Sometimes people are scared. Sometimes, a sixteen-year-old doesn’t fully grasp all of the socio-cultural implications of all of the facets of this opinion or article, due to not being some kind of genius who’s read and understood and memorised an entire college course’s worth of books on the subject, so they might agree with the main gist without being aware of all the less-than-savoury side implications.
All of that is human and understandable and totally, totally okay. And I know, it’s really annoying and sometimes upsetting to see generalised statements like that and go “holy crap, they’re talking about me”. But you can rise above that. They’re not statements of fact. They’re assumptions, or prejudices, and like a lot of those, they’re wrong. They don’t have to matter to you.
You can’t change what people say or think. You can change what it means to you, and how you deal with it.
We’ve seen this story play out before – a redemption villain stripping away the dark side of themselves. We’ve seen it with Hook in 4A, with Rumple in 5A, and now we’re watching it with Regina going into 6A.
Hook
With Hook it was a literal cutting away of the darkness – Hook asked to have his hand taken back off because Rumple convinced him it held his previous darkness. We may never know if it was cursed by Rumple, actually was tainted, or if it just gave Hook license to act upon dark impulses still inside him. My guess is the first because of Rumple’s “dark one lies, dark one tricks” line. The truth is it doesn’t matter. Even after all they’ve been through, all the pain Rumple caused him, Hook was HORRIFIED when he plunged his hook into Rumple’s chest – ”That wasn’t me!”
Hook gave up his hand.
Hook gave up a limb simply to avoid ANY risk of harming someone.
Rumple
Rumple didn’t give up the darkness willingly. It was stripped from him in order to prevent his death – and the unleashing of the darkness onto the town (something that happened anyway). Rumple was freed from the Dark One curse – he was given a clean heart.
Rumple made the opposite choice that Hook did. He rejected the clean slate he was given. He took the darkness back. At the expense of others.
The Dark One curse could have been ended forever.
But Rumple chose to keep that darkness in the world, and in his heart, because he wanted power.
Regina
Now it’s Regina’s turn. Like Hook she desired to be FREE from the darkness. But that’s where the similarities end. Because Regina’s decision to excise the Evil Queen wasn’t presented as a selfless desire the way Killian’s was – there was no talk of fearing what she might do to people if the Evil Queen came back. This wasn’t done out of concern for others. It was simple to prevent her own suffering.
We heard about how difficult it was for her to deal with the choices “she I ” made. And how much she hated doing good. And this:
Regina wants to cut the darkness away because dealing with the repercussions of her life’s choices is hard. She’s not thinking of the suffering she caused others in the past, or the suffering she COULD cause others if she reverted. She’s thinking of her own unhappiness that was brought about by allowing the darkness to consume her.
Regina didn’t NEED to cut away the Evil Queen. She had the impulses under control – she just didn’t want to endure the struggle to continue doing that.
So she tried to cut the darkness away, tried to kill the EQ, tried to erase her past. She tried to magically separate herself from her darkness in order to make life EASIER. And we all know that taking the easy path is not the heroes way – and on this show it never pays.
I believe in S6 we are going to see that you can’t separate yourself into two entities – as David said “We are both”. Jekyll and Hyde is a cautionary tale. Regina was the Evil Queen. The Evil Queen is a part of her. Regina herself admitted that she was dealing with karmic retribution for her crimes. She caused much pain – eliminating her own suffering that is the result of her past evil deeds is NOT the way to atone for the many happy endings she stole.
And she cannot win this battle until she admits that the darkness is a part of who she is – not a separate persona. The only way she defeats the Evil Queen is by continuing to make good choices – even if it’s hard, even if she hates doing it, even if it doesn’t bring her personal happiness.
She only defeats “The Evil Queen” if she gets to the point where she isn’t just avoiding doing evil because she “knows it’s wrong” – but making heroic choices because it FEELS GOOD to do so.
Regina said her happy ending was feeling at home in the world. She’s not there yet – she doesn’t even feel at home in her own skin! Perhaps next season if she reabsorbs the Evil Queen and fights this battle from within – and wins – she can find that happy ending.
I have a lot of conflicted feelings about the sneak peek – and I think …maybe that’s the point?
I do sympathize with Regina – and I don’t fault her for her reactions AT ALL. It’s HUMAN.
But I’m also tired of Emma getting shit on. Like in so many ways this is a rehash of what we saw at the beginning of 4A. And i’m really tired of Emma always having to sacrifice, put on hold, or HIDE her happiness for others…
WHEN NOBODY ELSE DOES THAT FOR HER.
Nobody said Charming excitedly kissing Snow when they returned was insensitive – and Emma was RIGHT THERE. We sure didn’t see Regina and Robin acting distant from one another in 5A after Hook died, or 5B after Hook was left in the Underworld – and his death was a fall-out from the Dark One situation – in which Emma saved Regina’s life in SB, and then Robin’s in Camelot.
They came back from he Underworld, everyone told Emma she was being too emotional and needed to deal with Hook’s death. But she was basically expected to do so ALONE. Snow hugged her – that was it.
Hook didn’t get a funeral. Or a wake. Or a town full of people telling Emma how sorry they are for her loss. Emma went to Hook’s grave ALONE. And there were some flowers there – probably placed by the Charmings on their own.
Regina may be tired of hearing kind, well meaning words from people – and as someone who HAS lost loved ones I know that it can be exhausting dealing with funerals and wakes. But why couldn’t the writers give us JUST ONE SCENE of Regina attempting to comfort Emma over her loss? It just keeps feeling so one-sided. Because when Regina dismisses Emma there at Granny’s – she has NO IDEA Hook is back. She’s telling Emma she’s not in the mood to deal with her – when, as far as she knows, Emma is still mourning the loss of HER love as well.
We did see Regina go to great lengths to help Emma get her happy ending back – she literally went to hell. She’s a good friend for having done that. But when it didn’t work and Hooks stayed dead – Emma didn’t get any coddling. Regina’s only on screen words were “you’ve had a loss”. And i recognize that they are different women – but this scenario playing out over and over again, with their friendship being presented as Emma being sensitive and Regina being kind of bitchy, is just getting kind of …tired?
I feel for Regina in this scene. But I also feel for Hook – because the fact that he’s back from the dead can’t even be a positive thing. And that just sucks. I wanted for him to have a reunion with his family and friends that was joyful – but guilt ridden. And I hope we get to see that happen once the shock of him being back wears off – but with Rumple doing some next level Dark One shit with the Olympian crystal we probably won’t get that luxury.
Looks like all my dreams of a Hooked Queen actual friendship forming this season are not going to come true.
I’m super excited about the finale. And i’m really, really interested for them to explore Regina’s struggle. But I really hope this isn’t going to be a lazy rehash of S1 where the writers have her go evil and take it out on Hook and Emma. Fingers crossed it’s more complex and better handled than that.
cshappybeginning 